StumbleUpon – The Art of Alienating Users
There is one important rule in online marketing, a rule so often ignored by startups and web companies of all kind: “if you have nothing unique, you have nothing at all.” StumbleUpon, a social network that used to be unique, is championing now a trend on a road that was already paved by other mediocre networks before.
The company’s decision-makers live under the strange impression that the community is a commodity – the lifeblood that drives this network is now rebelling against changes implemented (StumbleUpon version 4) without careful consideration. The very people who complain about the changes, defended StumbleUpon in the past, when the company was guilty of other “abuses.” Now some valuable users leave the network, while others still beg for a resolution. But, the arrogant staff at StumbleUpon remains deaf and blind, unless some random enthusiast who just discovers the network praises it. The “scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” principle is still alive and kicking, as you might imagine.
It’s not my intention to bash StumbleUpon today, there is no need – the service is a dinosaur, and we all know what happened to them. But, the current situation could serve as an example for so many other companies that start “en force” and lose sight over what made them popular in the first place.
Communities Are not Commodities
StumbleUpon is not the only company bragging about the “number of users” metric (with 8,554,406 members now). All online entities use such numbers as an indicative of “power.” The higher the number of “unique visitors” to a site, the bigger the ego of its owner. These metrics are important for companies that need to convince VCs of their worthiness, for sites that monetize through ads. But, when we reduce our community to a number (no matter how many digits), we actually depersonalize it – and this is the first step to a more dangerous course of action, where communities become commodities.
The Web is a live entity, where the “users” are not just passive viewers. Their contribution to the success of a network like StumbleUpon is vital: the users are building it, contributing to its growth by virtually producing all the content withing the network, and being, in effect, its brand emissaries. But StumbleUpon is reportedly ignoring its users and their requests, forcing upon them decisions that are not always designed to serve the community:
“You’ve managed to create a cluttered, complicated and counter-intuitive interface.” Eireann writes on her StumbleUpon blog. “How is this easier to use? Instead of Network or Friends info, my homepage shows stats and a tag cloud. I have no need to search my own blog (I wrote the damn thing, after all) and have no use for the ego-stroke of a stats display. Why isn’t the recent visitors info on my home page, or even a part of the Friends page, where it makes sense? You’ve segregated the “social networking” out of “social networking service”. The new blog layouts are aiming for “subtle”; the line dividers between posts are so faint as to be practically invisible, and in the case of the groups, the emphasis is now put on the poster’s avatar, with the group avy made speck-sized. It’s difficult to tell where one Stumble ends and the next begins, or what group’s discussion you’re reading. And charcoal-text-on-black-background? Has no one in charge of look-and-feel ever read a basic usability text or design guideline? If ever there was a web service that looked like it had been designed by a bunch of anti-social engineers, it’s the New SU.”
There are a number of extremely valid points in the quote above, valuable lessons for any social network, provided that someone actually reads them. I will summarize:
A Web Company Faces Extinction Without Its Community and Its Core Values
Change happens, is mandatory, and it could drive progress. It has to be done right, however, and not go against community and core values.
Companies that depend entirely on user-generated content (like StumbleUpon, Digg, Facebook, etc) should listen to the voice of their community, particularly when the voice resonates similarly across the entire network. Failing to do so is failing to satisfy the most engaged users, alienating them, losing community homogeneity by driving some of these users to networks and services that operate closer to their expectations. Alienating engaged users means losing the most enthusiast brand emissaries, and this will eventually lead to an inglorious end – the “deadpool.”
Don’t kill what makes you unique – this is where your value lays. There was something special about StumbleUpon in the past – some unique features that the community grew to love. Now these are gone, as the quote above shows. Without the core values, a company is left with nothing to build upon, no sustainable business model. Competitors will seize the opportunity to catch up, newcomers will take advantage to bring on the market a service with similar (and improved) core values.
About the Author
Mihaela Lica is senior partner at Pamil Visions PR and editor at Everything PR. She is a widely cited authority on search engine optimization and public relations issues (BBC News, Force for Good, Reuters, Al Jazeera and others), with an experience of over 8 years in online PR. Mihaela writes occasionally for SitePoint, Search Engine Journal, and other online publications. Follow Mig on Twitter or send her an email at mig [at] pamil-visions [dot] com.
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Comment by Matt Keegan on 29 October 2009:
Well said, Mig! And, thank you for referring to my article.
I’m saddened by what has become of SU — it just isn’t working out right, which disappoints me. Since January 2007, I have stumbled nearly 40,000 pages, many of which (2425) were my own discoveries. I also routinely leave comments after reading the articles, something a lot of users don’t do.
Will someone fill the SU void? Perhaps. And if they do, I’ll be signing up and remaining with this service until they get arrogant like so many web start ups are prone to do.
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 29 October 2009:
Are you using Propeller or Mixx, Matt? Other examples of good intentions gone bad… They never learn, do they?
Comment by Matt Keegan on 29 October 2009:
No they don’t. I no longer use Propeller, Reddit or Digg. Occasionally I use Mixx…it hasn’t been destroyed just yet.
Comment by Gerald Weber on 29 October 2009:
I’ve noticed much of the community is not embracing the new SU changes.
Comment by phyllis on 29 October 2009:
I have been on SU since Feb 1 , 2008 ,during that time I have 28,000 favorites- almost 11000 reviews– 113,000 stumbles, and 171 reviews, I am given credit for nearly 4000 discoveries of my own-high enough stats to claim to be a real user of SU,,It is appalling what a mess is being made of what was a vibrant , healthy, and growing community.
I have friends all over the world,and many subscribers. Now I see so many leaving, so many more just letting their sites sit- — what sort of business is it that seemingly ignores their customers—-what arrogance I see in the replies from SU Representatives–
This article clearly describes the problem ; I certainly cant add—Except to say my work in the past has included public relations— What is being done to SU and its base will soon be in the textbooks, along with New Coke, as how to fail, and ruin a market-
Comment by Phil Butler on 29 October 2009:
Phyllis, Thanks so much for stopping by and adding your weighty voice to this conversation. I think most of us are in the same boat here. To be honest, I sort of weaned myself off of SU some time back, using it less and less for either sharing, entertainment, promoting mine or friends fine articles or share, or anything the community was originally intended (or apparently intended) for. I remember first using it to investigate parts of the Web one might not otherwise experience without the suggestion and interactions of friends. Later, realizing a great value in not only showing the world other people’s favorites, but too – promoting some of our own where appropriate. Like so many others (Twitter be the worst case) the whole mess has turned into some monster which evolved into a marketing/goofiness circus.
I hate it that this, perhaps the most innovative of all the social networks, has gone to pot. Perhaps just a function of business gone awry in search of a monetization scheme that works? Who know the reasonings why. Stumble had a great opportunity to take social networking and social media into a new age. Sadly, the vision is apparently lost. Digg and its clones cannot do it, MyBlogLog, Netscape and later Propeller did not, Streamy, Mixx, Sphinn, nor a swarm of others professing to be the next thing, did not. Now StumbleUpon lays stagnant awaiting the axe. I am still there, force of imutable habit I suppose, my wife steadfastly clings to the hope the place will relive its former jubilant discovering nature, but I think she too is disillusioned. We have watched so much craziness go on there. I for one have never had them answer an email, and hell, I helped make them famous in words and deeds.
I have learned one great lesson in all this Web 2.0 frivolity; “You are only as good as what you did for these developers today.” I cannot spill the beans totally, but suffice it to say these people for the most part, forget you when they are done with you. Not very good business is it? It is not like they have hooked us on the sugar and caramel color either is it? Maybe they will read this article and get their act together? I suspect they will, as it happens every time these things are brought to light….the reason being? The very thing they empower people with can be turned very swiftily against them if they are not watchful and mindful. This is why blogs, some form of them, will remain the most powerful tools for communication. Your voice counts here.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 29 October 2009:
Well, the good news is that someone at SU heard this: the option to switch back to the old interface is just a link away, two clicks. In the upper toolbar, click on “Beta” – this will take you to a “leave beta” page – click on Leave beta and voila… you are back on the SU you loved so much.
Comment by Luci on 29 October 2009:
Stumbleupon is trying it’s best to suppress the voice of a large amount of stumble users with threats and with hiding of posts in forums, but they are not successful. For every threat they issue and with every post the ban or block someone else speaks out.
Of course there are many who don’t care and don’t speak up, or speak up and kiss a**, but on the other side there are just as many who will not be silenced. Will all of those be threatened with expulsion from SU?
Comment by Jenni on 29 October 2009:
They aren’t just not listening to us they are actively deleting our negative comments. I admit, I haven’t been there long, not quite two years, but I have added my share of discoveries and until recently took pride in building my Stumble pages. They think they are doing us the favor. They don’t seem to realize we as a community are just as important to the equation as they are, that the favors go both ways. They have deleted comment after comment on the forums discussing the changes and they are actively trolling and threatening to ban members who speak out too forcefully on their own pages. I too, hold out hope they will come to their senses, but it looks dim from where I stand. So many of the things Stumble had to offer are going to be changed, it’s truly a loss. I hope they reconsider.
Comment by Marvin on 30 October 2009:
I have with been StumbleUpon for about 3 years now. What was once a promising and unique way to explore interesting sites on the Internet has become an oppressive group of SS Storm Troopers silencing any criticism of their new Version 4 at all costs! Any of us who have spoken up calmly and rationally with good ideas and presented them in well-meaning and peaceful discourse have been met with threats of permanent banishment and have had our discussions removed and censored from our personal blogs and from StumbleUpon’s public forums even though they contained no inflammatory language, personal attacks and were completely and totally respectfully written! One of the moderators told me that the mere criticism of the developers of Stumbleupon will not be tolerated and will be censored! He even went on to say and I’m quoting here: “Just a point of order: the SU forums are not a democracy.” Apparently StumbleUpon is Hell bent on jamming this new version down its members throats even though virtually all us of HATE IT WITH A PASSION!!!
Comment by Willlburr on 30 October 2009:
Thank You for this, I am one of the Stumblers that was deleted out because I spoke up. Now I seen today where it’s not ok to bash Su but It is ok to bash the people that do not like the changes, But they don’t get in to trouble. A good friend of mine was also deleted out today for speaking her mind, she then received a nasty message from a stumbler not going to pass on that name, Lets Just say She is a very vocal on loving the new su. she also made Backgrounds for su it starts with a S ends with a d. Any way she bashed my friend with rather harsh words, my friends posted it. she got in trouble for doing that was asked to take it down, then the other person put on her page and complained about all the people that hated the new su, called as stumbledummies. How ever she did not get in trouble and has not removed the post.
As for the ability to switch back to the old su, that is only good till mid December if I read correctly on the su help page.
Im done with Su and off to Multiply
Willlburr a old timer of SU.
Comment by Joel Kauffman on 30 October 2009:
I couldn’t agree with the writer more. Many of the tings that really made me love Stumble are gone. Why?
Comment by Doodle on 30 October 2009:
ok.. It’s taken me a moment to voice my opinion on the New Stumble.. I still consider myself a newbie.. I was really diggin it.. I have a lot invested in my blog and it’s not just time.. I found a lot of comfort here.. till I was x-rated a couple of weeks ago.. and forced to make some changes.. my blog, by no means.. has ever been x-rated.. I did use the word “c**t” quite often.. since when did that become x-rated?? In Short.. I feel that this New Stumble thing is nothing but a marketing ploy for stumble to reap even more benefits off our blogs.. Nothing is free ya know.. I think, they want everyone to be and look “the same”.. the changes are coming and I’m thinking about starting on a different blog site.. I don’t want to be like everyone else.. I never have been.. and I never will be.. Hate It, New Stumbleupon!
Comment by Hiqutipie on 30 October 2009:
Well done ML…You can see where they are going, Why can’t they and in this economy they shouldn’t be wanting to alienate or lose Friends (subscribers)you should be trying to make them Happy…
Comment by Peacock on 30 October 2009:
It must be crowded in the backsides of the devs and the mods on SU as I see so many members in there.
Comment by phyllis on 30 October 2009:
Having spoken my bit— I will continue to develop options for getting off the Titanic—(Unsinkable if one recalls ) with the last bunch of starving rats–
Since I have long not know when it was time to quit, I will continue to hope- in spite of the evidence- those in power will listen and behave as competent business people- instead of the mulish attitude I have been watching .
I am coming to wonder if the side jobs of the “Decision Makers” Might not be in the government , since they behave with the same attitude of “the public be dammed”
Oh well, Its been great while it lasted .
Comment by SerinaDruid on 30 October 2009:
Hey.. here is a thought, next time you want to get a piece of the “StumbleUpon Drama” action why don’t you try to get a few facts straight first? I love how you mention some of the changes from v2 to v3 and trash talk v3.. You do realize we are in v3 now and switching to v4 right?? So your slamming on the version you should be trying to protect right now… It cracks me up when spammers like you come along and just run their mouths without even knowing the facts in a PATHETIC attempt to get some attention for their blog. Grats on that.
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 30 October 2009:
Serina, I would be very careful if I were you, I am aware of your involvement with SU. Second: this is not a blog. Third – thank you for the attention. You are one of the major contributors to it.
Comment by SerinaDruid on 30 October 2009:
I am aware that a great deal of your referrals came from my page
Have fun with your black hat SEO.
Did you just threaten me? “I would be very careful if I were you” Are you for real??
You are “aware of my involvement with SU”?? You are not aware about anything about me that isn’t posted on my pages and therefor are not “in the know” concerning anything that has to do with me. 100% of “my involvement with SU” is featured on my Stumbleupon blog. Unlike you I have nothing to hide.
Nice of you to turn your reply to me into a personal attack, I was being factual, your “article” here is full of false accusations and loose facts (some of which are over a year old).
Comment by Phil Butler on 30 October 2009:
So Serina, am I to take it you work for StumbleUpon? This explains the reports we have been getting here and via email (and IM) about SU people threatening users and etc. I guess as a PR I should not be saying things like; “Who the hell do you people think you are?”, but this is an honest question. We just received a nice note from the head of marketing there, desirous of talking about some of this. I guess this is the other end of some Machiavellian (link attached) “good cop bad cop” routine? We have seen this before too. Just like you people profess to know everything that is good for Stumble, we know our neck of the woods as well as yours. We do not need StumbleUpon traffic, it is flash traffic at best any way. If it were not for the ensuing talk with this nice lady from SU, I would just dump my account and hook up with some VC to create something better any way.
Spammers? Well, I shared a lot less of mine over the years than other people’s stuff that’s for damned sure. Many of these people your trolls are doing the “digg hate” routine on are wonderful people, though I know you could care less when your precious coding and quisi-developmental intellect is threatened. Well, enough of my venting. Maybe you should talk to someone further up the ant hill before stirring the pot more? This article was to serve two purposes; address some concerns of SU users, and to make an effort to get that network’s attention for their own betterment – period. The time our author took to research and write this could have been far better used to engage freaking Tibet – and with much more correct and useful impact. That remains to be seen, until after we talk to the aforementioned marketing representative. Our ears are open, our hearts in the right place, and my personal tolerance of trolls at an end.
A news flash just in. I was wrong about programming in your case, it appears graphic design may have been the area which is so sensitive. In which case, the over use of white space would have been no my list of intolerable “refinements” to SU. I am thinking, but could be wrong of course, that this is a bandwidth issue of sorts? Maybe you could answer that rather than come here to play bad cop?
Always,
Phil
Comment by XineAnn on 30 October 2009:
It doesn’t come naturally to me but I’ve been trying to keep out of this. Still, isn’t that last comment a threat, Mihaela? I mean, what can you do to her really?
I love Serina. I was the outspoken problem child before she came along. Now, I look conservative!
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 30 October 2009:
XineAnn, I was not threatening her – she made the comment as she was just an ordinary user, with no involvement with SU – when she is actually one of the people I describe as arrogant. She came here to call me a spammer. Someone who was employed by SU is attacking a user, as you see… now what would you call that?
Comment by phyllis on 30 October 2009:
Please Z??? I will continue to hope for the best- and will gladly eat ALL my negative words when , if? things work out–But with some sugar please ?
Perhaps I am being Naive ? however I think our end goal may be the same — I sure do hope so. There are lovely people on all sides of this—–
So I hope the Titanic will not sink, and we will all smile as we walk hand in hand into a long future life with SU- Want happy endings !!!!
Comment by SerinaDruid on 30 October 2009:
I WISH I worked for SU! They should pay me for how awesome I am but they don’t.
I just don’t like liars like you spouting off about StumbleUpon with half truths and out right lies.
There are a few changes with v4 that I am not happy about but life goes on. At least when I have a complain about SU I back it up with facts.
You did indeed threaten me Mihaela but I can’t say I was surprised.
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 30 October 2009:
And how exactly was that a threat, Serina. You translate that for me, as you should also probably translate what exactly gives you the right to call me a spammer, or what exactly I did to deserve the epithet. As far as spouting SU with half truths, am I reading this right? Where is the half truth?
Comment by SerinaDruid on 30 October 2009:
Why don’t you go read the reviews people did of this page and find out. Read them ON their page and follow all the links. You will see the flaw in your research.
“I would be very careful if I were you” is a threat.
I have WAY better things to do, good luck sorting this out and also in your future black hat SEO adventures.
Comment by Phil Butler on 30 October 2009:
LOL. Muddy water can run deep too. I think what Mihaela was referring to with her comment may have been something like this. As a startup developed by professionals, with a business interest at stake, it seems illogical and even undesirable for the management there to condone or otherwise support trolling articles to redirect opinion and inflame the contributor’s opinions. A more measured response is what should take place, as we have seen from many other companies in the same position. That being said, it seems feasible at least, that Mr. Smith, or Mr. Camp would be acting appropriately to discourage such behavior. They are the ones writing the checks aren’t they? So, does SU condone inflammatory rhetoric in lieu of exacting response to editorial feedback? Or the converse?
It may be beyond your comprehension, but Mihaela, me, and our colleagues actually care about these people within our various networks – people in general for that matter. If I sound too caustic it is because business has a way of rolling over people and I am tired of it. Were it not for your vested interests in SU, you would care less about it. These people who are being agitated give more than they get from SU. This is not some shotgun theory of mine, it is a fact in 99 percent of the cases. What they get when you get down to it is entertainment and sometimes a sense of belonging, and that is about it.
The tongue in cheek nature and attitude from professionals who are supposed to be building a next generation development reminds me of General Motors execs flying in corporate jets to Washington to beg for taxpayer dollars to fund their folly. The warning was not a threat, but a logical assumption by Mihaela that someone on the other end of this is a professional.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 30 October 2009:
“I would be very careful if I were you” is a warning, not a threat. I immediately explained what it meant: I know you are involved with SU, your comments are not those of a user that has no venture interest in this. Paid or not paid, you did a job for this network, you are associated professionally with it, and your actions count for the network as a whole. People see you as a SU representative – your tone and your adversarial comments do not help the network you are trying to defend. You are one of the reasons this all confusion takes place. I know you don’t see this, and you don’t understand, but your constant bashing of everyone who doesn’t agree with you is counterproductive and nonconstructive.
Comment by Phil Butler on 30 October 2009:
Serina, You should probably get back to the drawing board and just paint some incremental refinements to the backgrounds and interface. But then, I suppose SU should be democratic and see what 51 percent of the users want.
Always,
Phil
Comment by andrze-j on 30 October 2009:
Phil speaking about proffesionalism,your remark about Serina”should probably get back to the drawing board and just paint some incremental refinements to the backgrounds and interface” was uncalled for,for me this is not very professional and sounds like belittling someone, like”go away adults are talking you go back to your toys”.Very nice,very proffesional.
You and Mihaela sound convinced that Serina works for SU having vested interest in taking management’s side.I think your problem is that you as SEO’s and proffesional bloggers,traffic,money is your bottom line whatever you do on the Internet and you just cant comprehend the idea that someone gets involved like Serina does, out of fun and passion not expecting any payment for it.Like me and many others,we have other jobs in the real world.
Some perspective here please,there are still people on the Internet
who are here not to just make a quick buck like you and Mihaela.
You showed your proffesionalism right there by that drawing board remark and your narrowness of thinking of people who want to create ,have fun,being passionate about it,thinking of them that they are only motivated by money.
Comment by XineAnn on 30 October 2009:
I really wish I knew what 51% of the users want. There are no metrics. SU says the New SU is loved by all. Its opponents quote “85%” as hating it.
I don’t see there is any way of knowing and people are pulling magic numbers out of nowhere.
Serina doesn’t work for SU. I’m sure of that. And SU neither wants nor needs defense; it long ago passed critical mass.
Comment by Willlburr on 31 October 2009:
SerinaDruid Is the biggest Kiss butt of all times, And the second biggest liar next to her bosses at Su.
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
Artistic license it is eh? Well, if my remarks were out of line or unprofessional, I am sorry they were. If you look back at the comments however, I did not just post one ahead of time saying; “Okay, if you come here from SU to criticize our author and accuse us of stuff we are not guilty of, you are a cretan,” or anything to that effect. This person came here belittling to begin with. Making broad accusations and spitting venom so to speak. Now here comes andrze con the white horse with more asssumptions and accusations. A Quick buck? Non comprehension of contributory excellence? Maybe we do all misunderstand one another. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black in this case I guess.
Your redirect of the conversation appears to have been successful. The person largely responsible for part of the SU rework, working for money or pride or under the tutelage of David Airey – whatever – decides that once anything comes close to her masterwork – it is necessary to come and call the people who even presupposed to criticize anything about the air next to what she did -black hat, money grubbing whatchamacawlits? You know, whether or not we make piles of money here or anywhere else, whether or not Serina is paid, unpaid, independently wealthy or a stay at home mom – in the end – if the SU changes are not wanted by the community – they won’t stand. This article was not even about Serina’s work. She made it about that. For my part, I am sorry I ever answered one comment – I should have just written another article instead – as you say, there is more traffic and money in it (do not laugh too hard my friends – please – deeese eeees a sewius conbersatshun).
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
Good points XineAnn, Well taken. I guess measuring how many turn off the beta is a good way to figure it out. As for Serina, I realize now SU does not pay her, but there is still a vested interest there. It is oay, but she should be more objective. No one here (except me when I got tired of being called names) suggested anything wrong with the backgrounds.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
Willlburr, LOL. Actually I do not know what to say to that. The handle made me think of the TV show Mister ED tho. I laughed for 3 minutes on seeing it. That may be the funniest name I ever saw on the Web, even if it is not intended to be associated with the TV show. LMAO.
Always,
Phil
Comment by JC on 31 October 2009:
I joined S/U in October of 04 – the site went through a group of users who added to it and contributed in many ways beyond content – slowly things crept to a lower level – now V4 – what a slap in the face – I am not crazy about V3 but have adjusted but V4 is the last straw I can get my web fix from popurls and my social needs from the variety of sites out there – if there is ever a place created form the old SUers I hope I find it
ps – is there a way to back up my blog before I move on?
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
JC I think you can click on the “beta” button and revert, this is what I did.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 31 October 2009:
Yeah, click that button, coz in December you will all be moved to the new version any way. The idea to be able to transfer content somewhere else is brilliant.
Comment by Willlburr on 31 October 2009:
To Mr Phil, Glad you liked my Name, I did something Stupid on a Camping trip and For some reason My friends Wife stuck the name to me ! And yes it had something to do with Mr. Ed lol, Been using this name for many years. It is Unique
Please excuse the writing, Im no writer
As for this Article It hit the spot, She spoke the truth about Su and It’s Alienating Users, I have been with Su from the start and seen the many changes. And with each change they kept getting further away from the real users. All this time I for the life of me can not understand to whom they are listing to. I have never been asked about any changes as to what I would like or dislike, The user SerinaDruid just popped up right before the switch from v2 to v3 and right out the door she was making backgrounds for su. It was like she had access to the source code of Su, And now she spouts off at being the greatest stumbler. So pro Su no matter what they do. If she cared so much about Su then I have to ask Why does she not speak up about the way Su deletes out any comments that are negative about Su. I understand things change, But what really blows my mind is how Su totally will not listen to any negative comments, Any one with half a brain would be complaining about the way Su censors people and the comments. I work in IT and part of my job is to listen to what people have to say good or bad, That is the only way I can improve my business.
Now as for SerinaDruid she has a post running around all it has is a spot that says for her use only ! Under it it then shows the stumblers name, This was sent to me by a friend asking me why her name was on the page, so I took a snap shot and it was showing my name, she told me that when she is on the page it just shows her name. Ok so Now I wonder what this is all about, It kind of looks to me like a script that records user name and Ip address, so Now I ask my self why is this. then it hit me, she/they are looking for user names and Ip Addy’s and once they have mined enough info the can then do a search for Ip Addy’s and figure out just who has more then one profile, And yes I know that in the rules it says no user must have more then one profile at a time, So SerinaDruid Why not make this script or snippet of code available to all users, Show us what it really is. Because to me it says your hiding something !
See the snapshot
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7222/fireshotcapture005.jpg
Willlburr
Comment by Peacock on 31 October 2009:
Ignore SD, Willlburr, she is not worth your time.
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
Willlburr, That kills me every time I type it. I hear Mr. Ed hollering at his owner. So interesting what you are saying man. You know, this is the Internet, you would think people would not assume we are all idiots. I have spent UGH – 100,000 hours on this confounded machine maybe? IP addy’s eh? Imagine that? Well, our business has like 6 computers on the same IP I think. As for other profiles? I cannot keep up with the one on every networking site from her to Timbuktu (a function of having tested all of them for reviews on every tech blog from here to Timbuktu also).
I am sorry you have had trouble man, SU has great potential. Unfortunate when the lines of communication and appreciation break down. You know, most people do not realize the only reason we do any type of negative review is to suggest improvement. Half the time we learn better ways of doing our job by taking advice from people who come here to comment – even the ones that bash us. Well, thanks again for your effort my friend and believe me, we know time and making such efforts is not invaluable.
All the best, come back and suggest, we love it.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 31 October 2009:
@ Peacock
Comment by Willlburr on 31 October 2009:
I know Peacock, But that to get that out there, She knows who I am. She knows all of my profiles at su, I never hid the fact that I had more then one profile. Su even knew this, because I was in contact with them months ago seeking permission to make graphics for Su to place on personas, And told them about my profiles, and Nothing was said to me about removing them. And I was given permission to create them and publish them, I have written proof. I have sense pulled down all the personas I made on behalf of Su. For I can no longer support them. I have sense deleted the last profile I had. Icerun. Yep Sd it is I willlburr and you know I know the truth about you… So the smart thing for SD to do is keep her trap shut or I will tell the rest of the story…
Willlburr
Comment by Peacock on 31 October 2009:
Oh please do tell, Willlburr. She was the one who proclaimed to be ms Innocence.
Comment by Willlburr on 31 October 2009:
Gotta wait for her to run her mouth again… And then again I might just let it go. This is all starting to become a drama series. And Just starting to get tired of it. So the next move is on her.
Willlburr
Comment by My Name on 1 November 2009:
I too am tired of all the bickering. The devs are going to do as they please. I will stay for my friends. However, has anyone (geek/future devs) looked into Categorian.com? It tried to be a spin off after the last upset. Didn’t get much steam and could be called still in beta. Just an idea as it was working to pick up the unhappy folk from last time. It has potential and could seriously grow after this latest fiasco.
Just an idea.
Many people are bailing and fast.
Comment by Patrick on 1 November 2009:
I Stumbled Upon this site and I find it all terribly confusing. I have used StumbleUpon for over 3 years. I wrote a few things on my … whatever StumbleUpon calls the home page thingy … but the vast majority of my use of the service is stumbling. That is what makes StumbleUpon unique. Plodding through someone else’s favorites, reading their reviews, social networking — these are things offered by other services and pretty much outside the scope of what interests me when I want to stumble.
While minor changes in the home page defaults may seem terribly important to people who don’t use other networking services or to people who have twisted the purpose of StumbleUpon into a free self-promotion service for their web sites, I suspect that the vast majority of users are like me — people who just want to find new sites with interesting information or images. I seriously doubt that any amount of tinkering with the home pages (or even deleting them altogether) will kill StumbleUpon.
Too much repetitiveness, on the other hand, will have a significant negative impact. And guiding users to sites that have paid to get more hits leads to too much repetitiveness. So — if the owners of StumbleUpon are paying attention to this page, I would suggest putting little effort into twiddling with the home pages and instead attending to the core value of the service: leading people to sites they will find interesting (without too many pay-the-bills sites getting in the way).
Comment by Peacock on 1 November 2009:
Patrick
StumbleUpon do not CARE about the users at all. It is all about making money and we should make peace with it.
They have enough members who are brown nosing to them.
PC
Comment by SerinaDruid on 1 November 2009:
I am not going to comment on most of the dribble here because I don’t have time and I just don’t care but I will say for anyone that is interested, that screen shot Icerun provided is merely a post I made of one of my tag url’s so that I could find it in v4 more easily. The TITLE of the blog post is the SAME url I posted in the body and is of my one of my tags. For some reason SU converts the url to the one of whichever logged in stumbler is looking at it. I don’t have a clue why.
I loled at Icerun as he called me all those names and spouted off conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory. You sir are not very clever.
I wish all the morons would just leave SU it would be such a better place without them. Hey would a SU employee EVER say that? Nah I don’t think so.
I don’t support all the changes to v4, I’ve stated that many times in my blog. I will continue to say whatever I want no matter how much people disagree with me.
I see loads of the comments here are about me, lol! Nothing better to talk about? Oh right, what would you talk about? This crappy article? No way.
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 1 November 2009:
That’s because you are so important, Serina. See, the article doesn’t matter, but you on the other hand… How does it feel to be so popular?
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 1 November 2009:
The name calling has to stop. No more “morons”, “retarded” and other such appellative. I do not care who you are, and what you do, if you come here again to offend anybody, I will delete your comments and ban your IP as spam. I don’t expect people to agree, but we can all be civilized about disagreeing.
Comment by Mariaglenn on 1 November 2009:
I’ve enjoyed it while it lasted..17K+ favorites, 6111 reviews, nearly a thousand friends, and subscribers combined…It was a fun place to spend a little easy time, however, I’ll be leaving when the switch comes..it bores me to complacency, and I’ll be leaving my blog for lost stumblers to find, and enjoy..
Thanks for the memories SU..I don’t ride downhill slopes..
Maria Glenn
Comment by SerinaDruid on 1 November 2009:
I didn’t call anyone a moron. I said I wish the morons would leave, I meant it generally, if anyone was offended I apologize.
Comment by Willlburr on 1 November 2009:
Understood Mihaela, I will let it go.
Comment by SerinaDruid on 1 November 2009:
I guess its okay with you that everyone has been calling me names and making false accusations about me tho eh That isn’t biased or anything.
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
Willlburr, You have been fine. I guess not many realize how many times I would just like to come out and do what my mom called. “Giving them a good South Georgia Cussing.”
We all do have our points of view however, and I know it is correct and good to let everyone say their piece. The right of something usually comes out. Serina,for her part, is defending what she holds dear, perhaps in the wrong tone, but understandable to a degree. I am glad you guys come here to discuss this though, and not because of any SEO or traffic value either. Thanks and let us know your opinion, we do value it.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
Serina, before you came here to “get with it” in regard to name calling, I doubt the original author or most of us even associated the SU idiocy with anyone in particular. Even though we are wearing the black hats of SEO and instant monetization, we are nice underneath
Always,
Phil
Comment by SerinaDruid on 1 November 2009:
This is going to sound hard to believe but its true. A someone who I am not going to name was saying to me how ashamed of Mihaela’s recent endeavors they were and I told that person not to hold it against her too much because although I do not agree with her practices she is just a human being doing the best she can.
I realize you are real people. I realize some of you are even nice people, I do. I also understand the want to speak your mind and be heard as I am known for that myself. I do get a bit hot-headed at times but I think anyone would when being falsely accused of silly things all the time.
I have seen some abuse of social media and some black hat seo practices linked to this articles author, friends and blogs. I could back that up with a bunch of facts but other people already have and it is pointless to do so just call it *my opinion*. I know you find that offensive Phil and for that I am sorry but I call it how I see it and will never stop doing so.
I also strongly disagree with many of the contents of this article as I do not find them well researched or factual. I AGREE with some things, such as some of the changes to v4 that do not suit my personal needs but I don’t think that means SU is intentionally trying to take away things from *me* that *I* want or alienating me in any way.
I also realize there is a high bounce rate from Stumblers who visit blogs like this and do not think you are making big bank off it but I also understand the long term effects, I know more than you might think. In my opinion this article was written for personal gain and not written by someone who cares about the changes to SU. Except for maybe the spam reducing changes (Sorry, thats how I see it)!
I didn’t come her to defend myself but that is how it played out. I came her originally because I was angry, angry at the bashing of StumbleUpon, which you are right is something I hold dear. StumbleUpon fits into my life in just the right way, I can pick it up and put it down at my leisure which means I can fully enjoy it.
Articles like this one only breed the conspiracy theories and spread falsities.
I am not the snide person I have been coming off as everywhere (forums etc) the past few days and I could give you excuses for my less than polite behavior but they would only be used against me, so instead I’ll just say sorry. I’ll try to be a better me in the future.
btw the “Willlburr, You have been fine.” comment was a nice touch, thanks for telling him it is okay to call me a liar and spread conspiracy about me being some kind of SU secret source code reader, lol
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 1 November 2009:
So you are coming here to call me a spammer and you think that is all right? Social media abuse? Me? That’s something I would like to see you prove!
A person who is ashamed of my recent endeavors, but because you are so noble you cannot name? Don’t make me laugh. I don’t even believe we know the same people – no friend of mine is so violent against others as you are, oh perhaps just one, whom I helped a lot with her website, free of charge – because this is what money-hungry spammers do.
You called me a spammer, a black-hat SEOer, a liar, and StumbleTarded (very creative) and now you are playing the victim? You know what you are? A troll, and not a very coherent one to be honest. You contradict yourself, you attack people who don’t agree with you, you are unable to carry on a normal conversation.
My article was an opinion, based on what I see at SU every day: people who dare to express an opinion against SU are being called names, being called retarded, morons, whiners. The way you behave against so many users, the way you add user profiles to your blog “slapping them for your personal use” show a dark person, full of hate. If you really are on SU to enjoy what gives you the right to poor poison on so many others? Expect people to treat you as you treat them, Serina.
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.” I am glad I am not Solomon, the lady who was okay with chopping the baby in half would have done so before the guard could stop her. I did mention your side of the story, implying that neither had done wrong, just edged toward the “too far” end of things. We are all capable of that.
As for Mihaela’s practices, our desks are right beside each other and always have been. So this mystery person who is appalled at these supposed actions (whatever they may be) would be known to me I expect. In going over the 200 some odd friends you have on StumbleUpon, I took note of just one notable one you both share. Interestingly, one with a dynamic background which I know the SU person in point could never have created alone. Do you know someone who makes really nice backgrounds Serina?
It might interest you to know that Mihaela has helped many people with their websites, blogs, and other Web oriented stuff over the years (backgrounds too). It might behoove you to consider a case on point when the person you are slamming (as you pointed out so many times) does so much to help other people. Think perhaps; “What is the motivation behind all this, why is this person telling me this?” Any then look at what they got from you. I hope you see the tail end of this. People are sometimes only as loyal or good as the last thing you did for them. What is 20 hours of blog design SEO, plugin, or graphics worth? A kick in the pants the first time your hormones go whacky? I think this is what you are looking at Serina. That is all I have to say about it. Mihaela has no need for me to defend her, she can get 1000 people to come here and do that with a note. Barking up the wrong tree gal.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Willlburr on 1 November 2009:
I backed off per request and yet Serinadruid continues to spew off at the mouth.
Comment by David Airey on 1 November 2009:
Quite the conversation you provoked here, Mig. I’m curious about Phil’s comment where he mentions David Airey. Who is that? I’m always interested in meeting a fellow Airey.
Hoping things have been great with you lately.
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
Willburr, I think that is spewing off at the keyboard….err fingers.
I am just waiting to see what she calls us next. Or more precisely spewing off at the fingers I guess. We should talk about some other more interesting and important something, shouldn’t we? Like poverty in South Florida Willburr, what do you think about that?
Always,
Phil
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 1 November 2009:
Hi David,
– I think Phil meant you, and he meant it as a compliment. You know how fond we are of your work! Things are great, actually. Let’s get in touch on Twitter.
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
Hi David, Uhh, that was the David Airey I always mention signify the quintessential graphic designer. I did not mean to confuse the two of you, as I know you are far more than graphic design for websites.
Thanks for stopping by David. We admire your work very much.
Always,
Phil
Comment by David Airey on 1 November 2009:
That’s very kind of you both to say. Thank you. And it’s a pleasure to drop by.
Comment by Willlburr on 1 November 2009:
Thanks for the correction. lol I don’t know about Florida, But from what I have read the entire World is in poverty.
One thing I have learned in life most of the time when people hit on the truth, the other person hits back by calling one a conspiracy theorist. All I did was ask questions of her actions, and pointed out a few things that seem suspicious in nature. Like if she is the stumble God as she thinks she is then why does one need that kind of code in a post, is it so she can find her way in the dark ? She should know whats on her pages, What would that code have to do with the switch to V4. I do not profess to know everything, that is why I ask questions. Her answers did not answer my questions fully. All She did is prove the childish nature in her own words.
And your right time to move on to more important things, I have left Su, deleted out my profile. I no longer wish to be part of what once was a great thing, I can not continue to watch all the things that SU is doing and what certain people at su are doing to drive real people away.
William
Comment by Phil Butler on 1 November 2009:
I am with you Willburr, thought about deleting mine too, as well as Propeller, Digg, Mixx, and about 15 others. I hold out hope tho. Perhaps we can all get this to the next level. There will always be obtuse agitators out there. I just hate being called things so far from reality that they run cross wise of who the heck we are. I know you probably do too.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Willlburr on 1 November 2009:
Well I can’t speak for the other sites you mentioned nor am I in anyway promoting a site, But I have been on one called Multiply for about 2 years now, similar to what the old Su use to be but without the stumble button, and I have never had any problems there ( No Drama), and you can dress it up with themes, use CSS or HTML, I can be found there as willlburr/earth eagle soars
You are more then welcome to give it a try.
William
Comment by XineAnn on 1 November 2009:
Categorian got drowned in its own bickering. Human nature doesn’t change from one site to the other. This kind of flame war happened as far back as usenet.
Running away is not an option. Where you go, it’s still personalities and passion.
Comment by Phil Butler on 2 November 2009:
Exactly XineAnn. We are all the same no matter where we frequent.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 2 November 2009:
I can also testify that Twitter is very clean – no one offends other users as far as I know, and Twitter also has a very strict policy on this matter. Maybe something SU should look into?
Comment by Phil Butler on 2 November 2009:
Hi Willlburr,
Ironically, I was (let me check) one of the first people to test slash tech report on this community back in 2007 (maybe earlier I have forgotten). It has received good funding and I know the developers well too. It is a very refined system, though one SU users would have to get used to. In point of fact, I covered a startup which has far more capablity that SU not long ago. I will do a post on it so you guys can see the potential there. Best of all, it is not located in the cloud so much, and no one can do more than just block you.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Willlburr on 2 November 2009:
Can’t wait !
Comment by Peacock on 2 November 2009:
Can’t wait either, Phil
Comment by Jilli on 2 November 2009:
Rarely have I enjoyed anything so much as I have the commentary here. Never have I seen such a vitriolic, combative, obtuse, and totally obnoxious person as this Serinadruid person who recently paid my blog a visit which I now see as a black flag! I am positive now that I will not be here much longer and I trust no one that finds her (Serinadruid) behavior acceptable let alone admirable. The one thing that is now becoming clear to me, is that with these type of people taking over and running off at the mouth with no thought as to how they sound or the hideous impression they leave, tells me SU is becoming less attractive and offering no incentive to remain. I have a problem with the deletion of comments against SU while the ass-kissing comments are bloated to the gills with anal retentive gasses. If this change is as wonderful as is claimed, it can stand or fall on its own merits. If it has to be propped up by threats, deletions, under reviews, etc. then it is doomed and we all know it by the reactions of those sqealling against anyone who dares to disagree. Let the chips fall where they may. I have a very bad feeling now that SU has just sailed into a real squall.
Jilli
Comment by Anon on 3 November 2009:
I think SerinaDruid is a d**che as well. I realize she uses fake avatar pictures to quote-unquote “play the game”, as she puts it. Which is really kind of sad when you think of the likely motivation behind it.
Just thought I’d put my opinion out there. I thought this article was good and I thumbs upped it.
Comment by Grateful on 4 November 2009:
Thank you for this brilliant piece Mihaela!
I have been an addicted Stumbler since October 2005 and have been trying for months to help save SU from self destruction by offering suggestions but there’s a cockiness to management that is unwilling to entertain any constructive criticism and seems hell bent to let the ship go down. SerinaDruid is the worst of the worst enablers and the fact that SU hasn’t silenced her yet is both amazing and telling, that she is a company shill. I gave up the fight once I realized there was no one listening. SU needs to hire a savvy Marketing person like yourself but the key is to find someone who is a Stumbler and hates V4. The day V3 is gone, so am I. I’ve already ceased work on my page although I am leaving it up for others to enjoy as I’ve put way to much time, heart and soul into it, just to delete it. StumbleUpon was special and wonderful and I made some amazing friends from around the world. I’m saddened to see it about to fail.
Comment by Peacock on 4 November 2009:
Right on target, Grateful. Not only is V4 killing SU, but add to that nasty, vitriolic people like SD and X***n and you have a recipe for disaster. They create havoc and discord wherever they are, hiding behind masks of helpfulness.
PC
Comment by Grateful on 5 November 2009:
@Peacock
“hiding behind masks of helpfulness.”
Couldn’t have said it any better! Perfect.
Comment by leeemur on 5 November 2009:
Really?
REALLY?!?
I mean come on, if you want social networking use facebook.
stumbleupon is about the button. Period. If stumbleupon dies, it will be from spam not lack of love from self-important bloggers. blechh. social climbers, both real and internet, make me sick.
Comment by Phil Butler on 5 November 2009:
@ leeemur – That was a mouth… errrrr keyboard full.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Grateful on 5 November 2009:
@leeemur
SU is about building, sharing and viewing personal websites with friends, it is not about the button. I mean come on, if you want to discover new websites, go to Google. If you need help with instructions on how to use search engines I’d be happy to help you. Type in a word or phrase and hit the button, then like magic, you have your websites and no scary people to deal with. I’m sick of jealous, anti social people who want to spoil everyone’s fun, just because they never developed the social skills needed to make friends in real life or online.
Comment by XineAnn on 5 November 2009:
“I’m sick of jealous, anti social people who want to spoil everyone’s fun, just because they never developed the social skills needed to make friends in real life or online.”
Yeah, me too.
Comment by Jilli on 5 November 2009:
WORSHIP, n. A form of bootlicking demanded by the SU gods of their followers. The M***NS and I***TS however, seem unaware that any god that demanded such groveling, undignified behavior wouldn’t deserve to be its object of unrelenting and mindless devotion. Does not apply to a person with two or more brain cells, they are already aware of the futility of this type of lower subspecies adoration.
Comment by Peacock on 5 November 2009:
Correct, Jilli.
As Wes Bently said:
“Never underestimate the power of denial.”
PC
Comment by intrepiddreamer on 5 November 2009:
“the service is a dinosaur, and we all know what happened to them.”
They actually didn’t do so badly.
“Before their extinction 65 million years ago, dinosaurs had lived on Earth for about 180 million years.” (The Secrets of Dinosaur Success http://animals.howstuffworks.com/dinosaurs/dinosaurs-most-successful-animals1.htm)
Dinosaurs were the largest land animals to have ever existed and became the dominant land species in their era, and were for a very long time. Order Primates have been fairly successful so far: the earliest evidence of their existence occured just after the dinosaurs went extinct, although they didn’t have anything to do with it. At any rate, homo sapiens has the distinction of representing Order Primates in most niches, including those we carved out by our own behaviour.)
Now I don’t know what this means as far the Teh Internets goes, but it certainly is interesting to note that SU has so far managed to increase its users despite several experiments in interface design, each of which was followed by indignation, threats to leave, development of alternative sites etc.
‘friends’ was a nice experiment that didn’t work out too well. It was an attempt at commercializing SU by increasing social networking aspects at the expense of the site rating process. As it is, V4 provides more social networking tools than Twitter does, so I do not see any issue in strengthening it’s core usability.
There are things I wish are better implemented, such as formatting and themes. There are things I wish they would improve such as tag management. But I hardly think the lack of these features are alienating users any more than the inclusion of “friends” was supposed to have sent many users away in droves when it broke V1 for good.
Comment by Peacock on 6 November 2009:
Regarding the 8 million members of SU – I do not believe it at all.
When we still had the members register we could look at it and most of them were inactive for months, if not years. Then we also have the members who have multiple accounts; so my guess is that we can easily discount at least half of the 8 million members.
PC
Comment by geeknik on 8 November 2009:
I’ve been a member of StumbleUpon since 2005. It was a great place to kill time back then. It was pretty social. Now it is 2009 and they are f**king it up and it’s no longer social despite them saying that the v4 release is more social. How is renaming “Friends” to Subscribers making a network more social? I’m not a magazine. I want friends.
Pingback by SEO 2.0 | 12 Reasons Why StumbleUpon is Dead on 18 November 2009:
[...] StumbleUpon – The Art of Alienating Users [...]
Comment by Marrrrt on 18 November 2009:
What about SU users like me?
I just keep pressing the button for a random site.. I never go to my own page thing or “like” or “dislike” anything. Suits me. stop moaning, its free isnt it, if you dont ike it, go elsewhere, do something different, but stop bloody moaning online.
Comment by Mihaela Lica on 18 November 2009:
Well, Marrrrt… if you don’t like or dislike anything, why do you bother expressing an opinion anyway? This is MY site, I PAY for hosting, so I have a God given right to moan as much as I like. If YOU don’t like it, feel free to browse away. Recommended.
Comment by Grateful on 19 November 2009:
Well Marrrrt, while you’ve been freeloading on SU, I’ve invested $80.00 in it so shocking as this may be for you to comprehend, YOU ARE WRONG! I like Mihaela’s idea, browse away although I wouldn’t have put it as nicely.
Comment by Tech Tips on 23 November 2009:
Having been a StumbleUpon user for over a year it does seem like the traffic is decreasing and the community is much less lively. It will be interesting to see what direction things go as the new changes are fully implemented.
Comment by kael on 23 November 2009:
with all good things in these days ppl become successful get a few bucks and think they own the world,until one day they are minding their own business per se and lose it all.
Cool aint’ it?
Comment by Grateful on 23 November 2009:
I was finally banned from posting my complaints on GetSatisfaction which is used for FEEDBACK on the horrible new SU. A warning to others, by FEEDBACK they mean COMPLIMENTS. Dissent will not be tolerated at StumbleUpon, not by employees or customers and therein lies the problem, one of them anyway. To surround yourself with YES MEN and WOMEN is the way to set yourself up for failure.
Comment by Phil Butler on 23 November 2009:
LOL @ Grateful, Yes – so many like to set up mutual gratification societies. LMAO
Always,
Phil
Comment by Eric Alder on 24 November 2009:
I’ve only been ‘Stumbling’ since January 2009 (in fact, I Stumbled across this blog) and I’ve also noticed the changes in SU. The biggest change I’ve noted is the overabundance of commercialism. I also have not switched to the new version of SU (V4) mainly because I’m not one to automatically upgrade things that are working fine. All too often I’ve found these so-called ‘upgrades’ actually limit functionality and force users to re-learn basic tools.
By the way, the bickering between Mihaela Lica and SerinaDruid was quite entertaining. Good job mediating there, Phil!