Michael Jackson, Elvis, and Then There’s Elton John
A short time back we did an article entitled; “If There Can Be Only One King, Let It Be Elvis,” from which there was much speculation about just who is the king of rock and pop artists. Having just heard of Sir Elton John’s release from the hospital, this writer was once again prompted to examine the quality and character of legendary entertainers and artists. In looking at the accomplishments of such iconic figures, such traits as charisma, impact, and in the end raw talent arise out of these discussion. So it is, that Elton, compared to many others, may after all be crowned king of sorts in the end.
No doubt my suggestion of Elton as comparable to these others will incite still more rhetoric and passionate displays of fanaticism. But, this is not the intent of this article. Rather, taking a brief pause to celebrate one of the most talented artists of any age seems appropriate given Elton’s age and his recent bout with illness. We are not driving the nails in his coffin either, but I bet many out there would have liked to have expressed their feelings about Elvis and Michael, had they known their time here would be so short. So, how about a quick look at a truly amazing artists – Elton John.
Rising Legends
Born on 25 March, 1947, Reginald Kenneth Dwight, Elton John showed his musical aptitude early on. Starting at the piano at age 3, Elton grew up performing essentially. During the early 60’s he honed his skills playing background piano for such legends as “the Hollies“, as well as doing background vocals for others like “the Scaffold“. Then came the 70’s, and Elton’s second album (the first released in the US) Elton John. As they always say; “The rest is history, ” as Elton’s music became part of the phenomenal rise of the popular music genre of that era. Along with songwriting partner Bernie Taupin, Elton has since gone on to write and perform some of the most memorable songs ever. If longevity, diffused talents, and popularity are the benchmarks of true musical genius and even a crown for a king, Elton John will (I think) eventually stand out perhaps even more than Elvis and MJ.
Listing Greatness
The discography of Elton John reads like Bach’s hand written sheet music, with jabbing accents on nearly ever note. Who ever heard of a song or album going platinum x 16, let alone crossing genres ? I made a comment about Elvis’ Wikipedia pages being longer than Michael Jackson’s as one measure of his impact, but quite honestly never looked at Elton’s. There are whole separate pages just for his amazing accomplishments. The short list includes:
- 1994 Academy Award for the Best Original Song – The Lion King
- 1994 Golden Globe for the same creation
- 2000 Tony Award for Best Original Score
- 5 Grammy Awards from 1987 to 2000
- Elected to the Songwriter’s Hall of Fame in 1992
- Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1994
- Made Commander of the Order of the British Empire in 1996
- Knighted by Queen Elizabeth II for his charitable work in 1998
Perhaps more significantly as far as measuring the character of this artist was his altruism in donating all the proceeds from his re-release of Candle in the Wind to honor Princess Diana. This song was the fastest selling single ever produced to the tune of 45 million copies worldwide. The donation to the Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund, exceeding $90 million. Elton’s other humanity is well known, especially his outreach and charity with regard to AIDs. Elton, after all is said and done, is probably the only entertainer who can be said to have literally given hundreds of millions of dollars to charity.
Now share some memories from another legend of the entertaining arts. Elton John, perhaps the most talented (and maybe even generous) of them all.
Above: Tiny Dancer, from Madman Across the Water (1971) 2X Platinum
Above: Daniel, from Don’t Shoot Me I Am Only the Piano Player – 3X Platinum
Above: The video of Something About the Way You Look Tonight, the 1997 version went 11X Platinum
Above: Don’t Let the Sun Go Down On Me, from the Caribou album – 2X Platinum
Above: Can You Feel the Love Tonight, from the Lion King – Academy Award and Gold
Above: The tribute to Lady Diana, remake of Candle In the Wind, from Goodbye Yellow Brick Road – 7X Platinum
And still going. Cheers Elton, glad you are out of the hospital and back on the legendary trail. BTW, Elton has a total of 27 pages of Wikipedia text about him with just his main page and the honors and discography pages.
About the Author
Phil Butler is editor-in-chief of Everything PR and senior partner at Pamil Visions PR. He’s a widely cited authority on beta startups, search engines and public relations issues, and he has covered tech news since 2004. Phil wrote in the past for ReadWriteWeb, Mashable, Profy, SitePoint, Search Engine Journal, AltSearchEngines. Follow Phil on Twitter or send him an email at phil [at] pamil-visions [dot] com.
Hey Phil,
Its been a while.
Just wanted to know what Veer has achieved so far.
Box office India is saying its below ...
I take it I am not your hero then.
Always,
Phil 
I read this article and i must say you ____. 
I agree wholeheartedly - but what can we do? I only wrote the story to announce the puzzling news - ...
Thanks for helping spread the word about HAPPO Kristen! As you point out "The Internet has made it even easier ...
What is with our society? Sex in a public bathroom is now a desirable and even promoted commodity? ...
Comment by Con on 9 November 2009:
Mr. Butler I believe Elton John is a phenomenal artist but following up on your article about there only being ‘one king’ you seem reluctant to embrace Michael Jackson at that stature.
Elvis was an American icon, a great talent who did indeed rise out of poverty and become the biggest artist on the planet. Michael Jackson on the other hand, became the only person in history to overshadow Elvis and his career. The songwriting, vision, dance, style, grace, costume attire (fashion) and appeal of Michael Jackson reaches far beyond somebody like Elvis.
Elvis has been overrated and the younger generation (like myself) know this very well. With most of his songs written by others and his style copied from the true innovative black artists who were not giving the recognition they deserve. Jackson was influenced by others did did not rip them off. You say Elvis has lasted for 32 years as the King but how do you figure? The man’s music is never played anymore, his movies appear on late night ‘graveyard’ television. While Michael Jackson’s This Is It has become a major international success earning well over 120 million into its second week.
The younger generation has embraced Michael Jackson & The Beatles (who you did not even mention?)because they are their own superstars. They called the shots in their careers and their overwhelming talent with all the traits I mentioned. Elvis is great, but not on their level and once all the baby boomers pass on, his statue will not be not anywhere near as high as Michael Jackson’s.
I encourage you to forget about the person you grew up listening too, give Michael Jackson a chance, I gave Elvis a big chance and his music is old and boring. Michael Jackson’s ‘Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough’ was produced in 1979 it sounds like he just made it November 10th 2009, its fresh…its Michael Jackson ‘the legend’.
Michael Jackson = The King
Elvis = The Prince.
Comment by Phil Butler on 9 November 2009:
Hi Con, You assume much, don’t you? I understand, I did too (and maybe still do). I will not go into all which you appear to know about me or the generation before you, that is a very deep crevasse. I took note that you called me Mr. Butler, and then proceeded to whittle away at mine, and other people’s opinions, with a quesi-credible posturing as one of the “in the know, and with it” generation. Let’s assume some things here. Let’s say you are, what 30? When Michael did his first, what you might call “comback”, I believe that was 1979? Am I wrong? Hey, that would be the year your were born! If you are younger – then even Thriller would have been something you vaguely heard as you tried to figure out which end of the banana was which.
Okay, maybe you are 40. Heck, that would put you in the shadow of being a “boomer” yourself. The all the MJ fans who come here fail to regard at all is that Jackson himself was a baby boomer as you term all us old farts. We grew up with him, including the 80’s where many of us were not much separated from you in age. What does everyone think? We somehow wandered around looking for the ghost of Elvis? We loved the guys work too. Maybe even more profoundly than many younger people. I take a slight offense at all this posturing by younger people who say they identify with someone who could have been their daddy. MJ is not the sole property of the 20 year old of today’s generation – he may have never been had he not passed so soon. His music is eternal, just like Elvis’ and many other greats – especially Elton. Michael and Elton listened too, and grew up in the shadow of Elvis – as did the Beatles (which BTW I was moving onto next):
I just thought of another thing. I am 54 years old. In that time, can you imagine how many songs a music lover could possibly hear? Can you even begin to grasp how many MJ songs I have drank a beer to, danced a dance to, shared with a friend, taken comfort from? Just riding around in my various cars for 35 years I have probably heard his songs more than all the people coming here to crown him king of everything, put together. It is possible, is it not? When your generation gets to where our tackily labeled one is, I will be gone in all likelihood. But you can rest assure of one thing, if I am up there somewhere with MJ, Elvis and the rest, we will all have a great laugh (a gentle one, not like the course cutting ones of your generation) at your late realization. Like us, you cannot see it coming now.
I encourage you to do one thing Con. Be better than we were. Learn more, grow patient and wise long before any of us did. MJ, Elvis and many more are gone from here primarily because the world became too much for them. Just between you and me, at a point I did not even like Elvis’ stuff any more. I was into Zepplin, Jethro Tull, later Lynard Skynard, Aerosmith, and yes Elton for a while too. I learned to appreciate all genres and eras, listening to Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, and 100 others from Pavarotti to Pink Floyd. You naturally assume I am some sequined shirt wearing, pork chop sideburned biker dude stuck in the 60’s or something.
I do not mean to put you down, I don’t want to. You are the one who came to “recommend” I do something I already did 30 years ago. Michael Jackson did not write most of his songs either. Look up a guy named Rod Temperton. Even try Paul McCartney for clues into where those snappy tuned came from. Micael married Elvis’ daughter for crying out loud. Do you think she hunted him down to snag him for his good looks? Actually, Elvis took her to see the Jackson 5 when she was a child, and she and MJ had stayed in touch all those years. Jackson BTW, had an intimate fascination with Elvis as well. He owned the rights to many of Elvis’ songs and reportedly wanted to own them all. Elvis making money for MJ? Mums the word. So, the guy you marginalize, the accepted conduit by which just about ever artists who plucks a guitar now can reach fame and fortune (and yes your Beatles too) is worth hardly a mention?
I gave Michael a chance, he is in my mind just like Elvis, a superb talent. One which, I might add, I think would probably grimace at this younger generation’s lack of respect and even adoration for his predecessor. You sir, cannot even understand because of your age the simple mechanics of how much more difficult it was to buy a record back then. Hardly anyone did comparatively. They listened to Elvis and others on the radio. Now you cannot get out of Walmart, or off the Internet without buying someone’s serenade. They shoved MJ down your throat much more fervently than Elvis’ masters did us. We just had 3 TV channels back then, and Ed Sullivan only came on once a week. A record player? We are talking about something that looked like that goofy bird putting his beak on a revolving stone tablet like in the Flintstones dude. No one bought albums, they preferred 45’s (not the Colt automatic pistol – the vinyl flat record).
The vision of Michael Jackson? The vision of Elvis? Hmm. Elvis was scared out of his wits when he made his comeback. His vision was to basically be left alone. As for MJ, he was a resource his handlers used up as well. I know MJ would appreciate your love and open regard for him though. I do myself actually. I do not like however, (just like you will not) people marginalizing me or my generation so offhandedly. Though we may not know your full worth, your life’s path, the essence of your soul, we have walked more than a mile in your shoes, most of us. This is the luxury of time my friend. Something you nor anyone else can budge and inch out of place. To see where we have been, to appreciate all these things (and yes forget some) one simply has to be around a while. Sorry, this is just a fact. Unless you have a time machine handy, you cannot fully retrace the course of all this. While some of us older people have seen all you have in this regard, and perhaps more accuirately. Hard to accept, as it was for me, but you will – believe me you will.
A prince follows a king. There can be no prince without a king for that matter. IN this way, perhaps some neolithic figure hollering into the primordial evening, crooning to some obscure beat, was the king. Not MJ though, he just followed.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Con on 10 November 2009:
I appreciate your response Phil. Right off the bat I’ll address your comment concerning Michael Jackson not writing most of his songs. Let’s concern ourselves with his most successful records (Off The Wall onwards). Rod Temperton wrote only six tracks for Michael Jackson. Only two of them were number one hits. You should have done your reseach before making that comment. Michael Jackson wrote his absolute biggest hits. Billie Jean, Beat It, Don’t Stop Til’ You Get Enough, Bad, Smooth Criminal, The Way You Make Me Feel, Dirty Diana, I Just Can’t Stop Loving You, Black Or White, Remember The Time, Will You Be There, Jam, Earth Song, They Don’t Care About Us, Stranger In Moscow…I could continue but you understand my argument. Michael Jackson wrote a majority of his biggest hits, so your lack of knowledge on a statement you’ve made has already undermined your writings points and arguments.
Listening to music for 35 years while driving and I’m assuming around 48-49 years all up is experience I have met. Being 58 years old, I have a few years over you mate! Haha But I’m sure a good set of ears, regardless of their age can determine what is great and what is average. I have purchased over 400 CD’s, I am an avid music lover, I really attempt to listen to anything and everything. Michael Jackson is just simply the best, so when you rank Elvis above him, I need to correct that by stating my opinion.
I enjoyed reading about the extensive list of bands and artists you enjoy listening too. The vast difference in genres is impressive. But I would not be writing this piece if I did not also listen to extensive genres of music. From James Brown, The Police, The Beatles and Gerry & The Pacemakers I appreciate music also and deeming anyone as the ‘king’ of music in general will get disagreements from many people.
You are taking the direction of your essay to an ‘older is wiser’ approach. I can’t disagree with that because it’s true. But isn’t it also correct that Elvis changed an entire generation and his music influenced younger people to rebel against their parents? Isn’t it true that Elvis was considered a bad infleunce by the older generation during his heyday. The ‘respect’ you speak of, is not an age issue, it’s a individual’s issue. Just as you don’t like to be generalised as an old croon, holding onto his Elvis Vinyl, crossing your fingers hoping Elvis is not surpassed, younger generations also don’t appreciate that discrimination. Each individual, regardless of age thinks and acts in a different way.
The technical hierachy of a monarch is irrelevent to my statement. Both are kings, but Michael Jackson surpasses Elvis. Simply put, the day Elvis moves like Michael, is the day he surpasses Michael.
Always,
Con
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
See Con, I assumed (which maybe you wanted me to) that you were not a baby boomer (heck you may not be still – it is the Internet). Alas, we have reached an impasse then, you being older than dirt like me, and liking lots of stuff over time. Unlike you, I was not as thrilled with the way MJ moved (sorry had to do that). As for younger generations, they deserve their respect as well. Ah, but you said Elvis was a prince, you cannot get out of that one. Any way, Elvis (as you should know at your advanced age) LOL, was an extraordinary phenomenon. Michael too, just in a subordinate way for me and others. As you say, some unquantifiable personal element there. I am not trying to turn people away from MJ, but toward Elvis and others (many many genres to be honest), and in so doing, perhaps enhance their appreciation for even MJ. Honest. I loved MJ too.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Sara on 10 November 2009:
Elvis was very special and had unique gifts. He shared them with his fans and he was loved. His contribution was different than MJ’s or Elton’s. I loved watching his movies as a child, and still love hearing ‘Love me Tender’, and other songs occasionally. I remember where I was when his death was announced and it made me cry even though I was young. But, was as well known and loved worldwide?
Elton John is extremely talented as well. I don’t think there’s any other that can imitate his unique voice. His accomplishments should not be ignored – they are quite impressive. I love the Lion King and don’t get me started on the Princess Diana song – incredible. However, if he were to die today (God willing he won’t) and had a documentary with his last rehearsals, how well attended would it be? He has given millions to charity but do his accomplishments include bridging the gap between races? Did he create any mass style statement that is still being imitated today? Did he create any new dance styles? Is he loved worldwide like MJ? I really don’t know…
MJ – another truly unique gift that I’ve been blessed to experience in my life. There aren’t that many, but MJ is one of the greatest blessings. He is a true American story (like Elvis) and should be embraced by America. However, MJ reached out to the world with his music and then followed it up with his charitable acts. That is a big reason why he’s loved by so many millions even today. When someone was in need, he didn’t send his staff, he went himself. When someone needed love, he picked up the phone and called. He was known to show up in person to visit the sick wherever he was visiting. He also gave hundreds of millions of dollars to charity and is the record holder for the most charities supported by a celebrity. He also brought attention to AIDS (like Elton). He, like Elton, wrote a song that went totally to charity and that earned hundreds of millions of dollars. He introduced new dance styles (Moonwalk) but was quick to acknowledge that it was street dancers that taught him. His way of dress always made a fashion statement. He inspired African Americans to reach for a better life (I am not African America). His life was spent trying to teach and show the world to love one another, to not look at color, to be good to the planet, and to heal the world. I also remember where I was when I heard MJ passed away. My heart and soul still hurt today as much as that day four 1/2 months ago. We had an incredible human being in our midst but the media and cruel minded, thoughtless, people broke his spirit and killed his soul.
Why do we need to compare these incredible human beings at all, I wonder? Each holds a special place in our history as will the Beatles and others. Each have their own stamp of unique gifts that they’ve shared and we’ve been blessed to receive. Let’s embrace them for their individual gifts and not hold a competition as to who is better.
Comment by friend on 10 November 2009:
Uh, Phil the poster above is correct Michael wrote most of his songs partuclularly the hit songs including co-writing We Are The World. Rod Temperton wrote a few songs for him on the Off The Wall album, and I think a couple on Thriller. I thought we all agreed to disagree?
Comment by Con on 10 November 2009:
The thing you need to realise Phil is that your argument concerning Elvis is flawed. Yes he has lasted 32 years…to you and I. But when I picked up my grandson from elementary school, he was in the school yard practising Michael Jackson dance moves with all his friends. Maybe if you jumped off your computer chair, did some solid ethnographic research, you would see things that the internet cannot teach you. Elvis is as relevant as a portable tape player in an Ipod world.
One more thing, you must be the only Michael Jackson fan in history not to be thrilled with his dancing. Each to their own I guess!
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Well for crying out loud be thorough. Someone make a list of who wrote what. My list shows about a dozen or so, this does not make him Mozart.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Con, To be honest, looking at this from the “devils advocate” approach, MJ was no Fred Astaire (as one or two suggested). I would not call grabbing one’s crotch like a rabid baseball player, sliding around on one’s knees like a prison inmate running for help, pumping out “whooo whooo” like an incensed little choo choo, and hiring a makeup artist here and there even on a par with the average vaudeville performer. Jackson just revived some old stuff, paid for choreography, and used what he had to the best of his ability. You guys seem to think he had the voice of Nat King Cole (or Barbara Streisand where applicable), the athleticism of Baryshnikov, the mind of Einstein, the business sense of J.P. Morgan, and a fame factor beyond that of Achilles. As for my computer chair, I think someone watched too much TV given the degree to which Hollywood production has taken its toll on your life.
Any argument which uses concrete terms to explain intrinsically normative subjects is going to be flawed. At least from an empirical standpoint. Once again assuming anything about me or my chair is not exactly appropriate, and at worst, not nice in its implication. I made that mistake in thinking you were 30. So, I don’t condemn you for it. Let me see exactly who wrote every song MJ performed, as if that will make any difference. As for Elvis, like any other artist, some will never fully appreciate his impact. Let along Elton John’s or anyone elses.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Ahaaa! Now Sarah has finally gone where I hoped so many would. MJ, perhaps like no other artist before, made us think far beyond racial or ethnic boundaries. Adorning him with the mantle of dancer, singer, politician, whatever, inappropriately and without weight, diminishes this quality you are talking about. Michael Jackson 40 years from now, will not be remembered for selling Thriller albums, but for his impact on us beyond the music. Music being the conduit through which we were effected. I am glad someone finally captured this. You see, this is why Elvis had so much impact too. Not for bringing together the races, but for introducing a free form of expression atop the classes. Elvis, the King of class system engagement perhaps. Michael obviously took this a step further. Bravo Sarah. BTW, I compare them so that we can embrace them once again. The discourse leads us through emotion and sometimes misconception too. We go from stoic defensiveness to sometimes revealing admiration, and beyond. The point here is said in the title; “If there be…” Implying what? The title did not say Elvis or anyone else was or is.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Johnny Ventura on 10 November 2009:
Finally. Someone gives E.J. his just due.
Billboard magazine recently had an article about who spent the time
on the record charts. Guess what? Little ole Elt spend more time on the charts than Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson.
People tend to overlook Elt based on his public persona and stage custumes. Those people are cheating themselves. Elt is a classically trained classically piano player that loves gospel, blues, and rock, and blended those styles perfectly into a clearly unique sound.
Elt had at least one song in the top 40 for 30 consecutive years- a feat unequalled- and seven straight number one albums.
As one writer wrote of Elt, the consummate music fan has become the consummate pop star.
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Hi Johnny, With you all the way. There is more to being king, or at least one of the princes, than Wikipedia pages, number one albums, total sales, and a host of other criteria. The whole purpose of these articles is really to introduce and talk about these great artists. Their impact, character, and in the end what they say about us as their listeners. Opps, I spilled some of the beans there. Any way, in looking at our icons, we can tell a lot about ourselves.
Thanks for the insight!
Always,
Phil
Comment by Paul on 10 November 2009:
Comparing Elvis to Michael Jackson – well for a start Elvis was a much better and expressive singer as proved by the different genres of music that he sung in and recieved awards for. He is also in the Halls of Fame for each of these catagories of music as well they are Rock, Country and Gospel and these are the areas on which modern music is based on. The only reason he is not in the Blues Hall of Fame is because he didn’t record many outright blues songs or enough to be regonized but he was an outstanding blues singer as well. He is even in the Karate Hall of fame.
As a stage performer Elvis moved to the music he didn’t do a choregraphed dance routine to each song and he didn’t need special effects or gimmicks to hold an audience. He also incorporated Karate into his stage act arguably bringing it to a wider audience.Looking at Michael Jackson’s stage costumes and some of his dance moves they seem to be influnced by Elvis.
As for the sound of his music well the earliest was recorded in the fifties and as he said himself in the ‘68 Special “sounds have improved, musicians have certainly improved” and they have obviously improved again many times since then. However the music that Elvis recorded then and later in the seventies, well the uptempo rock material from the 50’s,60’s and 70’s is powerful and exciting while the ballads are heartfelt and passionate and years after they were recorded they are still selling in their millions – that is proof enough on it’s own – and they are not all being bought by people who were alive when this material was recorded.
There are some writers who say that Elvis should be remembered because he was the first rock’n'roll singer – I disagree he should be remembered because he was the best and not just in one type of music.
The influence of Michael Jackson – well it would seem now that every song on stage has to have a dance routine to go with it and that has led to live shows being mimed performances which apparently would also have included the concerts that he never got to perform. The Thriller video also led to most later video’s by other artists costing a fortune. The Thriller video has also been said to have been the first movie style music video but something like Adam and the Ants Stand and Deliver had already moved in that direction without a big budget or a name director. As for him being the first black artist on MTV well that says more about MTV than anything else. Back in the fifties and early sixties Bo Diddley and Sam Cooke were on TV and Nat King Cole had his own TV show.
I have no real intrest in Michael Jackson one way or the other, some of his music is OK but I wouldn’t go out of my way to listen to it but even when Thriller and some of his later albums were selling millions I never once thought that he was ever anywhere near as good as Elvis and neither did anyone else no one ever made any kind of comparision because there wasn’t any to make.
Comment by Nigel Patterson on 10 November 2009:
Con, You have assessed Elvis’ impact solely on his recorded music. The reason he is still an icon today is actually a hybrid of not only his music, but his immense and ongoing socio-cultural impact. Elvis was the pivotal force in opening the door to youth music and culture. Incredible artists like Michael Jackson built on it.
Comment by Kimo on 10 November 2009:
Elvis = KING
Elton = QUEEN
MJ = COURT JESTER
Problem solved if you ask me.
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Thanks Nigel, It took me 85,000 words and about 50 answers to comments, and I still did not get that across. Do you need some work answering comments?
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 10 November 2009:
Kimo, Cold as ice, but somehow true.
Always,
Phil
Comment by Gloria on 11 November 2009:
I am an Elvis fan and have been for most of my 48 years. Although he was slightly before my time, my parents to my older brother, older sister and I to see him in Vegas several times when I was a kid only to hear people sitting at the same dinner table as me tell me I was too young to be an Elvis fan. Oh no I wasn’t! In voice (and NOBODY will ever sing to me like Elvis does), looks and entertaining. I wish more singers sang as well as he did. Having said that, Elton John falls right underneath Elvis as a musical favorite of mine. The man has a ton of music and it’s not just his hits that are superb. I grew up with EJ’s music and I’m thankful he did what Elvis (and Michael Jackson) couldn’t do – get off drugs and booze – and still make music and play live. I like some of Michael Jackson’s music and appreciate his dance moves even more since he’s passed away. For me, Elvis is the king and always will be, but why do we have to call anyone “king”? All three have made contributions to popular music. I love music by all three artists and two of the three mentioned here are all time favorites of mine. I like them because of their music and nothing else. Okay, I admit, Elvis is very nice to look at, but that’s a bonus. All three artists mentioned here are giants. I don’t see how anyone who likes music can’t not like at least one or two songs of each artist. Honestly, I don’t care if Elvis didn’t write his own songs. Apparently, neither did the people who bought records in the 50’s when he first hit it big. Elton only writes melody. That’s okay with me. He’s written some of the best melodies in pop music. Michael Jackson has written some dynamite songs. It’s all good. You just have to have an open mind….
Comment by Judy on 12 November 2009:
Sara correctly mentioned that Michael’s work reached across racial boundaries. Don’t forget that, Bennie and the Jets, reached #1 on both the pop and R&B charts and EJ was one of the earlier white artists on Soul Train. If you want to see why Elton check out any of the you tube clips from his 1976 Edinburgh solo concert.
Just remember as John Lennon said “Before Elvis, there was nothing.” We can argue about Rock Royalty, but Elvis was clearly a revolutionary.
Comment by Mark on 12 November 2009:
Just a short note.
While a lot of the above is true let us not forget or be honest in that in the last 4-5 years MJ did not do a lot musically, was treated a bit of an outcast due to sexual revelations rightly or wrongly.
As far as reaching a wider audience EJ reached the white, black market and all markets across the globe, wrote the music to almost all of his songs,which MJ or EP failed to do.
EJ has toured the worls many times over always selling out even in today’s changing musical style, he still sings live never mimes and doesn’t rely on dancing as after all we are jydging on music not dance, as without the music there is no dance, can MJ play the piano as well as EJ NO.
In short maybe EJ can be stated as king of pop, but at the end of the day the individual will answer that, but he is up there and his contribution to music can not be ignored.
Comment by janetspeariett on 13 November 2009:
Just have to add, today is my 50th birthday(omg!),. I first saw elton john in concert in 1973 at preston guild hall, he was amazing. I last saw him at red piano tour, he is a brilliant musician, and his music has been there for me through out my whole life. He’s 62 now. Your song is 40 years old, he is a legend. i did like MJ, but elton is magical. gary Barlow(phwoarr) is following in his idols(EJ)footsteps. Long live the king ELT!!
Comment by Phil Butler on 13 November 2009:
@ Mark and Janet, Right on. Not many have realize it, but I love all these impactful and dynamic artists. The reason for all the posts and comparisons? To bring them to people. Again. MJ was so superb, Elvis – what can anyone really say, EJ – a man out of time. There are more too. Maybe we can honor them and enjoy the conversation and art.
Thanks guys, alot
Always,
Phil
Comment by Phil Butler on 13 November 2009:
Anyone who listens to this, and does not cry or is not touched? Well, that cold cold heart has grown much too frigid.
The heart of a person, is the only thing on this Earth that matters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJpuJWxwJaU
Always,
Phil
Comment by friend on 16 November 2009:
Doesn’t matter. Michael Jackson had the most significant records broken that no amount of Elton John or Elvis can over shadow him. Elton had a behind the scenes film but it didn’t do nearly what This Is It has done. Tonight This is It is certified at $222 milion dollars in two weeks! I understand that the older people do NOT want to give Michael credit for anything. I know where that’s coming from. But as for the “artist” of today NO one mentions they want to be like Elvis, or Elton John. Many say they want a career like Michael Jackson. Michael has several albums that have sold in excess of 20 million copes. At least two have sold in excess of 30 million including the bestselling album of ALL time Thriller. Michael was friends with Elton and stayed with him in the early 90’s. Michael never tooted his own horn. He didn’t have to. He had 6 albums in a 30yr span and was more successful in that respect than any other artist who took a gazillion albums combined to only get about 250million more rcords sold than him. The reason: they had years and years of a head start and once again he did it with 6 albums. Michael always paced himself and did an album every 4-5 yrs not every year and then some movie soundtrack. He didn’t need to do that. He was a TRUE artist. Elton is also a true artist but I wouldn’t call Elvis an artist because he never created a single note. Invincible sold 8 million at the time it was released but the bestselling album that same year was Usher with 12million. Michael was number two but it has since went on to sell 13 million copies. Michael Jackson as a “popular” artist is the pinnacle. To this day Michael holds the record with the most sold out concerts at the former 72,000 seater Wembley Stadium with 13 sold out concerts. He holds the Guinness Book of World records for the most attendance at a concert. Enough said! He is the undisputed King of Music.
Comment by Paul on 17 November 2009:
friend – Read my earlier post for a comparsion between Elvis and Michael. However to state that Elvis “never created a single note” shows how little you know about him – watch the ‘68 special for one example. Of course there is bigger sales now than then, the music business has changed entirely even since Elvis died there is now a much bigger global market so obviously bigger sales. Also to say that Michael never “tooted his own horn” is nonsense didn’t he float a statue of himself down the Thames to promote the History album.
By the way all of Elvis’ number ones were re-released in Britain in 2005 and all made the top 5 including 3 number 1’s Michael copied this and re-released all his singles and none made the top 10. How’s that for a recent example of Elvis’ superiority.
Comment by friend on 19 November 2009:
I know Elvis played the guitar, however I never heard a published song that he wrote. Which album did it appear on? Sure the music business has changed but Elvis should have been big across the globe with big sales of at least one album. As far as MJ tooting his own horn promoting an album with a statue is just that. Promoting a single album. I as a die hard MJ was not buying anymore re-releaes because he has done that so many times. Shockingly the re-release of Number one’s went to number one after he died which is understandable but then the This Is It soundtrack came out and went to number one too. I didn’t buy either one bcause I have the box set from 2004, there is a boxset just before that so believe me even the most true MJ fans will not keep buying the same songs. He had so many but they keep releasing the ones we already have. Look to me and many others Elvis is NOT bigger than MJ. Many minorities don’t even like Elvis. They think he stole minority music. Millions love Elvis including you. But let’s be respectful of this mourning time because Elvis’ grandchildren are grieving their former stepfather who their mother (Elvis’ daughter said they loved)Michael Jackson. Just saw Ben with a Michael Jackson t-shirt on the other day. Peace.
Comment by Paul on 20 November 2009:
Elvis does have a songwriting credit on a few songs such as a track called You’ll Be Gone (Girl Happy album)he just added some words to a song that his friends wrote for him but to be honest he didn’t really have any songwriting ability. However that dosent make him any less of an artist as he could sing or interpret a song better than anyone.
If there are any minorities that dont like Elvis because they think he “stole” music its because they haven’t checked the facts Elvis always gave credit and didn’t steal anything. As B.B.King said music is there for everybody.
As for Elvis not having one big album seller – when he was recording the big selling records were singles of which he sold millions and over the years the many albums he released have sold millions as well. Graceland has hundreds of record awards from all over the world and this is for an artist who never toured outside America or even promoted studio singles or albums he never made any videos.
For you as a Michael Jackson fan there will never be anyone better but no one can deny how great an artist Elvis was. I would be respectful in a time of mourning after all Michael did get married to Lisa Marie who Elvis thought more of than anyone and that would have made him a relative of Elvis.
Comment by von on 22 November 2009:
Michael Jackson is the king, best music, best voice, best dancer, best personality, he’s truly the one and only, even his “weird” life belonged to a legend…I mean how many people like michael jackson can you see in a lifetime?
Comment by Phil Butler on 22 November 2009:
Von, it depends on how long you live I think
Always,
Phil
Comment by friend on 23 November 2009:
Ha ha Michael just won 4 American music awards voted on by the public. He is now the single artist to win the most AMA’s 25 in total!
The AMA’s have been around since 1973.
Yes Elvis was a great entertainer too.
Comment by Jeffrey on 25 November 2009:
I wanted to comment on what Sara said. Did Elton John moon walk or do a dance..no he did not. Though he did do something similar. Piano in rock music became a mainstay after Elton John. Yes there were Piano Players for him, just like there were dancers before MJ. Would artists like Ben Folds, Alicia Keys, and in some ways older artists from the same decade like Billy Joel have the same popularity as piano players without Elton John.
Everyone follows Elvis in the pop music world. Whether it is imitating him or trying not to imitate him. That will almost always separate him apart, does not mean there are not others who are greater, but they are allowed to be that because of Elvis. Elton John, I would argue, is the better songwriter by a long shot. Look at how many quality albums he has put out. In the 70s he had 4 albums out at once all on the charts. The quality and the Quantity are there. The important thing to Say about Elton John, is his longevity. He is still out there selling out stadiums. Still writing new songs, some of which make charts. He is 20 years older then Elvis was, and 12 years older then MJ. He reached the same point they both did, and survived then prospered. That is an important aspect as well. In the late 80s he could have very well died from drug and alcohol overdoses.
I think the most subjective part is who was the better entertainer, frankly Elton and MJ were two completely different styles. Elton John very much a Bar Piano player, more so then Billy Joel. And he was very good at what he did. Michael Jackson was a dancer. Two different things.
Singing wise, it would be between Elton and Elvis. Michael has an excellent voice, but does not have a huge range, yes he can sing high. Look at Elton’s songs, his songs are very rangy and tough to sing. Michael Jackson lip synced at his concerts a lot. While Elton did in some TV performances in the 70s, in concerts he does not lip sync. This is not a bash on MJ, he still sings some of his songs in his concerts, just most of them, especially the faster ones, he would lip sync.
One theory I do think, is Elvis and MJ died with some of their Sex Appeal in tact. Elton John is an older man and as such some of that is lost to audiences. I see the same thing happen in classical music. After the film Amadeus was released, and got more mass appeal then the play, Mozart had more sex appeal then some of the other old dead composers such as his teacher, and Beethoven. His music resurfaced in popularity, not that it ever died away. This is not saying those other composers were inferior or anything, just what happened.
It is hard to have this discussion in the relatively recent death of Jackson. His popularity has rose, just like Elvis’ did after his death. There is a lot of fanaticism out there. If this conversation was had a year ago, Elvis would win hands down.
Anyway, just my two cents hope I can add to this great discussion!
I saw some issues with age in other comments, I am a 23 year old Classical pianist who is pursuing his degree in Piano Performance.
Comment by friend on 1 December 2009:
Everyone knows Michael Jackson is THEE best that’s why no one has outsold him.
Comment by Paul on 2 December 2009:
Elvis sold over a billion records years ago and Michael’s sales figures have been exaggerated since he died they are nowhere near that amount. No one before he died said he had sold anything like a billion.
Comment by Johnny Ventura on 2 December 2009:
The deification of Michael Jackson since his death has
been nothing short of astonishing. As Paul just wrote, Jackson’s
sales figures have been greatly exaggerated.
Most people have been repeating the outlandish claim that Jackson has sold 750 million records. That figure comes from a fansite that
cannot give an actual source. Lazy entertainment reporters
have repeated this falsehood.
In America, Jackson is credited with selling around 50 million albums. A letter above wrote that the This Is It movie was at
having grossed 222 million in two weeks. But the fact is that This Is It Domestic Total as of Nov. 30, 2009 is $71,900,049.
As far as Elton John’s behind the scene documentary- which was a
real glimpse of an artist, not showing just the good about the subject, but both the good and not so good sides- was released to major cable companies like H.B.O.
Michael Jackson had some serious talent, but dancing is not the be all end all of entertainment. It also doesn’t take much talent to grab their crotch and make some high sounding bird calls. Not meant to degrade Jackson, but he loved to toot his own horn and have others do it for him as well. “king of pop” by Taylor- given to her from Jackson himself, the already mentioned marketing tool for His Story, his failed attempt to have a giant replica of himself walking the streets of Las Vegas, etc.
As far as current singers only having Jackson as an influence, what about Scissor Sisters, Ryan Adams, Ben Folds, Brandi Carlile, Daughtry, Taylor Hicks, Rufus Wainwright, et. al. that have all claimed to have been inspired by Elton John? Believe me, there loads of others.
Give Jackson his respect, but don’t belittle Elton’s or Elvis Presley’s while doing it.
Comment by friend on 3 December 2009:
Michael Jackson made it possible for black entertainers to be featured on a tv station that refused to accept minorities. THAT in itself makes him a musical ICON!
Comment by Johnny Ventura on 3 December 2009:
I forgot to mention that James Brown paved the way for Michael Jackson and Prince. I really had a laugh when I saw Al Sharpton
just about say that MJ paved the way for Barrack Obama.
Well, that is still hilarious.
Comment by Phil Butler on 3 December 2009:
LOL Johnny, I am starting to laugh myself. My son and I were evaluating the “humability” of MJ’s songs as another way of scrutinizing them. We came to the conclusion that they cannot be hummed. These folks raving over his heavenly domain fail to understand that without the video and the choreography, plus the never ending loop of radio, tv, and other media outlets playing this stuff, adding visuals at every turn, MJ may not have even been a celebrity. Sorry guys but think about it. Elvis was never accorded such image making extravaganza. Most people had never even seen him when they became fans. Then a few movies, which back then people did not frequent as much. If you missed the Ed Sullivan Show, they did not re-run it 400 times on 50 networks – there were only three networks that you might pick up if you held the tin foil in the rice place on the rabbit ears
This is ridiculous actually. MJ was a great performer assisted by everything that could be thrown at the fan. If his label could have made him into an incurable disease, they would have.
Always,
Phil
Comment by friend on 5 December 2009:
Johnny, name me ONE african american entertainer that had worldwide fan adulation that Michael Jackson had BEFORE he had it. Name ONE? Al Sharpton was right! Before Michael Jackson there was NO ONE that had people from all races globally chasing them down the street and attending 70,000 seat stadiums to hear them sing, dance, speak, or do anything. He was the FIRST.
Comment by friend on 5 December 2009:
Johnny: You name me ONE Afrian American male or female that got the adulation that Michael Jackson got before he even came along. Name me one African American who had whites, blacks, asians, you name it chasing them down the street, coming to their concerts by more than 70,000 in attendance. Before Michael Jackson came along what famous african american male or female had worldwide fanatacism directed toward them. Plese name that person. Michael Jackson was the FIRST! YES! By Michael Jackson reaching the dizzying heights he did Oprah, Tiger Woods, and yes President Barack Obama were not seen as strange to have a global impact as minority people. BEFORE Michael Jackson there was NO African American Global Icon at the very very top. So yes, Al Sharpton was correct in what he said. James Brown didn’t result in a global African American phenom. Michael Jackson opened that door FIRST and the rest followed through.
Comment by Johnny Ventura on 5 December 2009:
First, I did not say they were bigger or more popular than Jackson. I said he made it more possible for others to follow. He is the Jackie Robinson of music. Joe Louis actually became the face of America when he fought the German champion.
James Brown sang and danced without grabbing himself. Clearly he paved the way for Jackson and Prince. Brown was not limited to a black audience either. Jimi Hendrix was known and respected and was also not limtied to a black audience. Stevie Wonder was/ is great. He also beat Jackson to the punch. Wonder also broke down the barrier of the standard practice of the day by writing his own material and not using songwriters hired by record companies.Otis Redding, Nat King Cole, Jackie Wilson, Al Green all beat Jackson to the punch. Again, I am not saying they were more popular than Jackson.
Barack Obama???? That is just laughable, Friend. President Obama won the election largely because of George W. Bush. I don’t want to get into a political discussion, but that is a fact.
As far as an African American Global Icon at the very very top of the world, have you ever heard of Muhammad Ali? At one time, Ali was the most recognizable face on the planet.
Comment by friend on 6 December 2009:
Barack Obama and Michael Jackson? YES! Whether you want to acknowledge that or not, Barack Obama was globally accepted not just because of George Bush. See, a bad economy, we’ve been there before. Yet the thought of electing a black man was NEVER EVER considered, even though in later years some were running for president. Just as you said Michael stood on the shoulders of those before him, by the time Michael Jackson came along he was a phenomenon like no other. NO OTHER african american achieved the adoration or the adulation that Michael Jackson had. And just like the others before him Oprah, Tiger Woods, and even Barack Obama stand on the shoulds of Michael Jackson who was the FIRST african american to make it on a global stage. He made it not such a foreign idea for a black talk show host, a black golfer, and a black man as president of the United States to be accepted worldwide, because we had seen it before. He was the first and in that respect The Rev. Al Sharpton was correct.
Comment by Johnny Ventura on 6 December 2009:
LOL. As I wrote earlier, the deification of Michael Jackson is hilarious, astounding, and even pitiful. Jackson being responsible for the president is so silly and you can’t even see it. The fact is that the U.S. all but forgot about Jackson for the last couple of years until his death. Jackson became famous just for being famous.
Next thing you know, some Jackson fanaticals are going to see his image on a Dorito or a tortilla.
Obviously you made your mind up already and nothing is going to convince you that you are completely wrong. Not to worry, Presley fanaticals have been Elvis sighting for years. You guys are not alone. So was Jackson responsible for ending the Cold War, too?
Next thing you know, Jackson fanaticals are going to start a church starring Jackson. Peace….not as the world gives, but as only Michael Jackson can bring.
Comment by friend on 7 December 2009:
I’ll have the last word. BEFORE Michael Jackson there were blacks who ran for pesident under the worst of eonomic conditions in America. When Michael Jackson came along and forced MTV to begin playing monority videos, from there was born Yo! MTV Raps. Rap was even played on MTV because of Michael Jakson being the FIRST black artist they would play after being told to do so. Rap music was a movement that was thrust into the American mainstream once suburban kids who didn’t listen to black radio stations for the most part saw the rap artist VIDEOS! From there as rap/hip hop took off globally due to videos moreso than music played on urban stations, America began to change slowly but surely. No one is suggesting that Barack was elected because of Michael Jackson, what they are saying is that Michael Jackson was the first global international african american icon universally loved and selling out 70,000 seat stadiums. Before him NO ONE would fathom the idea of seeing blacks in that light. NO ONE! Barack Obama stands on Michael Jacksons shoulders just as Michael stands on Sammy Davis, Nat King Cole, and James Browns shoulders. They ALL were a part of the culmination of electig the first black president. It’s just that CHANGE as in MAKE THAT CHANGE was a phrase the gobe had already been familiar with and wasn’t so afraid of it when they heard it from this black man Barack Obama BECAUSE heard it 20yrs before from: Michael Jackson!
Comment by friend on 7 December 2009:
One More thing. You don’t deify someone when you hated them the night before. People LOVED Michael Jackson and they always had. They may not have shouted it from the mountaintops and allowed the naysayers to shout them down making it seem as if EVERYONE believed he was a bad person (au contrair mon frere) but Michael Jackson was and always will be universally loved. That didn’t happen just because he died.